Curse

Shanaeri Rynale · Dec 29, 2006, 12:45 PM // 12:45

It does'nt limit player prices... It would do if there was no alternate way to go beyond 100K but there is

E.g Limiting way
Units of Currency are Gold and Platinum
Current way
Gold, Platinum, Ecto(or an other)

There is no limit at all save the amount of ecto that can be traded in a trade window(7X250 1750=of anything..))

The 100k does not limit anything, it just forces a change of denomination..

Antheus · Dec 29, 2006, 01:02 PM // 13:02

And I presume so many people have problems, because the largest ammount they can trade is 7x250 ectos, or roughly 14 million.

Yea, it's broken. Fix it anet. This is game breaking, and it's really messing with my game enjoyment. I mean, I buy weapons daily for 100k + 55 ectos, and I can't even buy a ferry anymore because I can't fit enough ectos in trade.

How many here have even maxed out their bank? How often do you buy stuff worth over 100k?

This is just a pointless rant about a non-issue.

In the glory days of crystalines and HoD there was perhaps a few dozen of those items floating around. There just seemed to be many of them because those that were selling them were spamming for days or weeks.

Nobody else has even the slightest realistic problem with the cap.

- Gobby - · Dec 29, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

I dont mind 100k being max in a inventory..as i dont usually have 100k to spend ^^. But like all of u i would like there to be no limit espically in storeage... and bring in armour storage now!!!

Mr_T_bot · Dec 29, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

It does'nt limit player prices... It would do if there was no alternate way to go beyond 100K but there is

E.g Limiting way
Units of Currency are Gold and Platinum
Current way
Gold, Platinum, Ecto(or an other)

There is no limit at all save the amount of ecto that can be traded in a trade window(7X250 1750=of anything..))

The 100k does not limit anything, it just forces a change of denomination..

Then if the cap was removed, the price would be the new cap + ectos.

freekedoutfish · Dec 29, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Its one of the few limits we have on trying to prevent over rich players.

Which is why we need a cap on 100k.

People can quite easily share money between characters and use one as a mule to hold more.

But the economy is bad to start with. If we removed the limit, the economy would blow out of proportion as people could have endless amounts of gold.

Shanaeri Rynale · Dec 29, 2006, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot

Then if the cap was removed, the price would be the new cap + ectos.

No, unless the trade window size is increased the hard limit is 100K+1750 of the most expensive mat at the time. E.g Ecto's.

The higher up you go the less numerous the trades. As far as I know the most expensive item ever sold in GW fetched 30m by someone in 2005

Lots of trades are above 100K but <2m so a ceiling of say 15m is plenty. Then only the very,very rare unique trades would need to resort to ecto.

Check the amount of items sold for 100K+ on the auction site, people buy them all the time.

Regardless of this, more scams have taken place because of the 100K limit than almost any other, why do I say this? Simply by spending hours in the trading centres and watching local chat. It should be changed not only to help trades but also to help the buyers also.

bad person · Dec 29, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Its one of the few limits we have on trying to prevent over rich players.

Which is why we need a cap on 100k.

People can quite easily share money between characters and use one as a mule to hold more.

But the economy is bad to start with. If we removed the limit, the economy would blow out of proportion as people could have endless amounts of gold.

Where would this endless amount of gold come from? Gold doesn't just appear, you know - removing the limit won't suddenly just add however many hundreds of platinum to a person's storage.

Look at it this way - if the value of an ecto is, say, 7k and one individual character can hold 45 stacks of ecto, that's over 75 million gold. How does increasing the maximum gold one individual character can hold make any difference when that character can easily hold the equivalent of millions of gold at one time?

If anything, increasing the amount of gold a character/account can store would devalue the ecto since it seems that more ectos are used in trades than what they were created for - crafting FoW armor.

SilentAssassin · Dec 29, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

It does'nt limit player prices... It would do if there was no alternate way to go beyond 100K but there is

The 100k does not limit anything, it just forces a change of denomination..

actually you are wrong there,
players need to have ectos to make trades > 100k

more ppl keep their ectos

think when they would change the cap suddenly to a much higher value

effect: players will sell their ectos because they won't be worth alot anymore for them (don't come with fissure armour)

ectos prices will drop pretty hard, a player who is a bit to late with selling his ectos won't be happy I guess.

you sound like ecto = a specific amount of cash wich is wrong, ectos fluctuate

Shanaeri Rynale · Dec 29, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

I'm not talking about the value of ecto. As someone said Gold won't suddenly appear in peoples storage. Those with ecto wont always sell to free up cash, so the two systems will co-exist for a while.

Of course it will change, which I why I said it was a denomination. Think of gold = US dollars and Ecto UK sterling and you have a more accurate picture of what I was saying.

So at the moment to buy or sell anything over 100K you have to use US dollars and add Sterling on top. It would make far more sense to only have to pay US dollars..

freekedoutfish · Dec 29, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by bad person

Where would this endless amount of gold come from? Gold doesn't just appear, you know - removing the limit won't suddenly just add however many hundreds of platinum to a person's storage.

Look at it this way - if the value of an ecto is, say, 7k and one individual character can hold 45 stacks of ecto, that's over 75 million gold. How does increasing the maximum gold one individual character can hold make any difference when that character can easily hold the equivalent of millions of gold at one time?

If anything, increasing the amount of gold a character/account can store would devalue the ecto since it seems that more ectos are used in trades than what they were created for - crafting FoW armor.

Except the price of a material good can fluctuate. The price of ecto can go up and down and not everyones wants or has ectors.

You talk about ectos like currency, as if its an easy thing to come by. Ectos are not something which everyone can easily get ahold of, want or need.

You only need them if your wanting obsid armor or you want to use them as income.

If the cap was removed from the gold storage, then those who dont have or want ectos would have a way to make an infinite amount of gold.

The only benefit I can see, is that the rich players would no longer just be the UW or FOW players. The casual player could save up lots of gold without needing ecto.

But thats the last thing we need.

As ive said in many threads before, increasing gold will obviously increase prices.

And you say that gold doesnt just apear out of no-where. But gold is ALOT easier to make then ecto and it obviously drops alot more requently in varied amounts.

You can probably make the cost of 1 ecto easily in one day, if not more. So without a cap on gold, you would make millionaires very fast.

This is why we dont want caps removed.

bad person · Dec 29, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

You talk about ectos like currency, as if its an easy thing to come by. Ectos are not something which everyone can easily get ahold of, want or need.

For most high-end traders, ecto is currency. While its true that not everyone wants to deal in ecto or needs to, for those who do ecto is easily attainable. You don't have to farm for it - just hang out at any major trading area and you can always find some. If you want a better price, hang out at ToA or other areas where people go in to find them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

You only need them if your wanting obsid armor or you want to use them as income.

Again, ecto is a form of currency for most high-end traders. There's a bit of risk involved, but when aquiring items over 100k it tends to be the safest way to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

If the cap was removed from the gold storage, then those who dont have or want ectos would have a way to make an infinite amount of gold.

Are you suggesting that people who don't deal with ecto simply stop trying to aquire gold once they hit the storage limit? I highly doubt that any player with that kind of wealth would simply stop doing anything to aquire more because they don't have any more room in storage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

The only benefit I can see, is that the rich players would no longer just be the UW or FOW players. The casual player could save up lots of gold without needing ecto.

With a few good drops here and there, a player could be rich without ever visiting either the UW or FoW. Besides, what's wrong with the 'casual player' saving up lots of gold? Haven't they earned it?

Wrath of m0o · Dec 29, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

To sell more copies of the game.
The only logical reason for the cap, is so anet can sell more copies of the game. Sure we all have storage issues, so why not go buy another account and double your storage capacity.

freekedoutfish · Dec 29, 2006, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Ive absolutely nothing against anyone earning gold to any amount, aslong as its legit.

And I realise people can actually have more then 100k by sharing their gold amoungst characters.

I also have nothing against people possessing ectos and using it as currency. Because they've worked for it.

I have alot more respect for those who take the time to earn and save gold, then those who beg. I tend to give lectures to anyone who begs from me ingame.

But I personally wouldnt say ecto was the second or main currency in game, because as I mentioned, its not attainable by most. Or atleast to a degree that it could be used as effective currency.

Its more a luxary item which you need large amounts of gold to purchase to start with, or you need the time and dedication in the UW or FOW to farm.

This renders it as an unattainable form of currency to most players.

Thats why im pretty much ignoring it as a form of currency as part of this debate.

Im concenstrating purely on gold for the arguement, because its something easily attainable by all. Either throw farming, drops while questing or selling materials (like ecto) or trading.

So if you only discuss gold and ignore ecto, then I still feel a cap at 100k is justified.

I hope that made sense, because I think I lost my train of thought somewhere.

But I believe the cap is justified because, as I also mentioned, we need some form of control on how much gold people can own. Obviously you get around this by putting gold into mules and possessing expensive materials. But in the sense of an individual character and just in gold. We need it the cap.

The economy as it is, needs some controls over how much gold we own. Alot of people also suggest that we should add more gold to make items more attainable, but the truth is that we need to limit how much we all own.

We need gold sinks, and limits.

This is one such limit (which is avoidable), which we have.

Shanaeri Rynale · Dec 29, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

We're discussing the 100 and 1000K cap. Just because some players dont have that much cash does'nt mean that the usage of ecto should be disgregarded as a de-facto currency. It's like saying that since the majority of the population does'nt have 1m in the bank we should'nt count gold.

Since we are talking about high end prices, then whether or not normal players can attain it is kinda irrelevant.

One counting someones wealth in RL, people seldom just include their cash assets, but also count property, gold, shares etc etc. Such amounts are included in the economic figures also. Therefore people purchasing power is also not limited to their cash figures but also how much other stuff they can liquidate or swap. Therefore the cash limit is a pointless one in terms of limiting wealth, it just gets in the way of people who can and do trade high end items. It does'nt stop them, it's just a pain.

Antheus · Dec 29, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

But I personally wouldnt say ecto was the second or main currency in game, because as I mentioned, its not attainable by most. Or atleast to a degree that it could be used as effective currency.

Ecto is worth 7-9k. How is that not attainable.

If you have 8k, you can obtain it. Anyone can, at any time.

And when you do loot an ecto, it's the same as looting 8,000 gold pieces.

In life, you use coins, banknotes, bonds, stocks, .... A house you live in isn't money, yet has a fluctuating value on the market. This worth is well known. Stock market = ecto market. Prices go up and down, but they make trade possible since it scales the trades not possible with regular currency. Let's say you want to buy 51% of a company. There aren't enough banknotes in circulation to bring suitcases totalling $160 billion. But a single piece of paper will transfer ownership to you. Are banknotes better? Perhaps. If the company files for ch. 11 tommorow your piece of paper is worthless, but banknotes would retain value. But they are impractical.

The reason ecto is used and not some other item (sup vigor runes) is because historically, ectos have proven to be by far the most stable currency. They are the real world equivalent of gold. Value of gold has changed, but it was for longest time used as the most stable asset upon which the value of currency was based.

It's same in GW. Ectos aren't woth 8k gold. 1 gold piece is 1/8000 of an ecto. Ectos define the currency, and the market prices. If ectos suddenly dropped to 1k, the prices would go up on everything. This - is a good thing. It defines the value of money. GW's gold is worthless. Why is something worth this and that much? Ectos.

Why is this an issue? 99.5% of players don't trade with ectos. 80% have never seen one or owned one. It's a non-issue. It's there to fulfil extremly specialized trade among an extremly narrow group of people counted in thousands, possibly hundreds.

Think of these players as conglomerates, dictating the world's currency, with supervision from Anet. Anet is the government that ensures that ectos remain somewhat stable, and the high-rollers define the prices through their trades.

GW's economic system is surprisingly deep beneath all the W*2*B spam. Simplistic, but well defined and functional.

FeroxC · Dec 29, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Haha you think storing larger numbers than 100k would cause disk space problems.

Think about sites like Amazon that have to store MUCH more data as well as images etc. Storage for the GW server is probably a no issue.

The cap is an attempt to lower item prices to under 100k no one would buy rare materialss if the cap was infinite as the rare material prices fluctuate too much; it's gambling.

Ectos dont define the market price, only the rich trade in ectos the average player(who doesnt visit high end forums everyday for a good deal) wont even have 30k in the bank let alone over 100k and has no interest in buying ectos. They dont want FoW armour and the stuff they do want is less than 100k.

If ectos dropped to 1k the average player wouldnt care.
Just like in the real world if diamands suddenly cost a penny each we wouldnt have hyper inflation

KANE OG · Dec 30, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

But I personally wouldnt say ecto was the second or main currency in game, because as I mentioned, its not attainable by most.

Everyone in the game can buy an ecto at the rare material trader, so it IS easily obtainable by anyone.

warriorsmiley · Dec 30, 2006, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

The real reason why a chars cap is 100k is because that is the most you can pay for any 1 item from an NPC. There is no other reasons for it. dont listen to anyones speculation as that is the reason.

How many people over looked this answer its the only reply I read that made sense on this whole thread. It shouldve been closed after this post.

bad person · Dec 30, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by warriorsmiley

How many people over looked this answer its the only reply I read that made sense on this whole thread. It shouldve been closed after this post.

I actually think it's the opposite - NPC prices are capped at 100k because of the cap on storage, not storage being capped because the most an NPC can charge is 100k. Any item that sold for 100k from an NPC would likely have been more had the storage cap been higher. Remember that supply and demand play heavily on NPC pricing - if a highly valued item got to that point, why would it stop at 100k and not go beyond that price? The answer is simple - the developers had to put a cap on any individual item equal to the cap on what one character could hold.

I personally believe that the 100k, 1000k limits were just numbers picked because the designers felt they would be sufficient. They may or may not be, but I'd rather see them put time and effort into other things first - this would, in my opinion, be a pretty low priority.

freekedoutfish · Dec 30, 2006, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Ecto is worth 7-9k. How is that not attainable.

If you have 8k, you can obtain it. Anyone can, at any time.

And when you do loot an ecto, it's the same as looting 8,000 gold pieces.

Why would someone use 8k worth of gold which they saved up to then buy one ecto, if they didnt intend to use it on obsideon armor?

And if their going to use them on obsideon armor, then their not going to use them as currency.

Plus prices can fluctuate.

If your going to buy an ecto to simple store 8k in material worth instead of gold, you could loose profit when trading back if the price has fallen.

This was my point. Not everyone needs or wants ectos.

The only people who will trade in ectos are those who wants Obsid armor or those who deal in high end trading to make millions, or those who have lots of spare time and dont need to be spending gold and can save up for ectos.

Something which the majority dont do.

Most people cant casually save up 8k for an ecto, because they need the gold for other more important things.

Thats why Im not counting ecto into my debate. Its not a form of wealth which everyone possesses.

Im not saying its unfair to own ectos, and make money from it. If your able to do it, then great.

But the majority cant because they need the gold for more important stuff, or they dont need ectos.

If you then only consider gold as the kind of wealth which most people possess, its a bad thing to remove the cap. It will only invite easier wealth and make people richer alot easier as they can store alot more gold.

Its bad enough we a select few who have grand amounts of wealth (which they probably got legally and legittly), but if we shouldnt gave everyone a really easy way to store lots and lots and lots more gold, it would make everyone rich alot easier.

Which we dont want.